HWS Patch Announcement | New Structure Limit system | New Tax system | HWS Marketplace %SALE% feature

RexXxuS · February 17, 2018, 5:13pm

a bigger announcement today even though the preparations for HWS 8 are already running and very time consuming.
But this coming patch is basically a preparation for HWS 8 as well so please look into it closely and give your feedback since it changes quite some gameplay mechanics!

The patch goes live next week on Friday the 23th February after the 9 AM restart

New Structure Limit system

The global limit system we have at the moment is basically the one from the very beginning and a lot of players gave already a feedback about a better one. So this is our first bigger rework which needs a bit of time to understand though.

Just a quick note what I mean with “Structure Limit system”:
It is currently our global “10 Faction Bases on PvP and PVE and 2 Private Bases on PvP and PvE allowed” and our local playfield limit such as “15 SVs allowed on Golden Globe”.

Please give feedback about this! Below is just a first suggestion

After analyzing quite some factions and structures. I picked for example these two use cases:

EU - Faction A with 22 player

72 SVs
30 CVs
17 HVs
11 BAses

NA - Faction B with 36 player

71 SVs
22 CVs
41 HVs
20 BAses

So this is my first suggestion:

Let’s break it down and mention important facts:

We have now a global limit system for all structure types, not only Bases.
The Faction columns are only considered for active players (online within the last 10 days!)
The left two columns are a factor, the right two clumns are absolute numbers
For now I don’t separate PvP from PvE - but maybe it is needed ?
The global limit system works independent from the local limit system. That means if we allow for example 30 SVs globally, but Homeworld has a 15 SV limit, then the 15 SV limit works and vice versa.

Since the left two columns are factors let’s use some examples from above for better understanding:

Faction A from EU could have globally (again: the total amount of structures on the whole server!)

22 faction BAses
33 faction CVs
44 faction SVs
33 faction HVs

So as you can see it is basically the faction members multiplied by that limit factor.

Why?

Currently large factions are in disadvantage when it comes down to the old limit system. It is not about that they are in advantage anyways by their numbers but in fact the bad result of that, splitting bigger factions into smaller ones, abusing the old limit system, causing more performance overload, etc.

Also we want to have a dynamic and scalable solution for the future with bigger planets.

Integration

However this system is quite complex when it comes down to the integration. Because as written above the local and global limit system works independent.
Now please think about a possible integration and share it in the comments!

Integration example:

We remove the hard cap limit on Golden Globe for example Bases (currently 10 on NA and 2 on EU allowed) and let the factor decide how many structure a faction can spawn.

ATTENTION: Don’t think that Faction B with its 36 Bases are too over powered then because in reality that faction has at the moment three other alliance factions which are very small which would allow them to spawn 40 Bases at the moment. Also, since it is a global system and Faction B goes all-in in Golden Globe, they can’t spawn additional BAses on Homeworld then for example.
Thus the total BAse amount would be decreased with the new limit system!

So again PLEASE discuss this in detail and if you want some cookies I would prefer if you keep out the generic boring toxic large faction bashing and concentrate on a good solution with smart thinking and bigger picture eyes!
It would be very helpful if you keep it also structured in your discussion. For example looking at HWS Connect > Universe and see what limits are currently on which playfields and tell then, if the hard cap limit should stay or be replaced by the new one. (that would mean we put 999 on specific playfields then so the global one triggers)

Last but not least keep in mind that only the active players from a faction are considered for the limit system. As soon as one guy of the faction has not logged in the last 10 days the whole faction limit factor is dropping!

The bottom line in general here is: a small faction can never ever compete with a large faction. Period.

New Tax system

That is also a big change and be warned already that if you don’t respect the new Tax system it will be expensive, very expensive for you.

The Tax system had so many updates and from update to update it became complexer and non-transparent ever (which was an analogy to real life but nah). We want to fix this and go back to the roots where people respected the taxes and acted properly!

Why?

Because the current situation shows us that PvP monster ships are parked at ECC and ECC space because the tax for these ships is about 98 credits for each faction member. Yes, no comment on that.
Since we want to tackle the PvP <> PvE topic more closely we can’t allow PvP veterans to park their stuff in PvE, in ECC, so easily.
Also keep in mind that we have real taxes currently only applied on ECC and ECC Space. (Also for some Donator planets and Peacekeeper but only if they get (unnecessary) overcrowded.)
And ECC and ECC Space should and will be always community hubs in the HWS universe with 300+ people visiting this place every day. The performance and experience there should be as smooth as possible.

Permanent parking there is not needed and the intention at all!

New formula and facts

Ship price: Blocks * Devices * Tax Factor
Tax for private structures: (Ship price + Player’ Bank Credits) / RP
Tax for faction structures: (Ship price + Player’ Bank Credits + Player Credits) / Faction members / RP

Notes:

Tax Factor will be now 100 instead of 1000
RP for the faction structures is the average RP amount of the whole faction
Faction members are considered as active if played within the last 7 days. Inactive players pay half of the taxes
Tax sinner (ignoring the tax couple of times in a row or switching their stuff to public) are paying the double amount of taxes

That’s it. Compare this to the current version and you can thank us later.

Example:

Old: An active 7 man faction CV with 6534 Blocks and 187 devices and a faction RP of over 2000 did cost 98 credits per member.

New: That CV would cost now 77,189 credits for one (but not all) member.

HWS Marketplace %SALE% feature

Additionally, on coming friday we will implement that feature to our HWS Marketplace.
After I looked into the marketplace and saw happily how frequent used it is, I saw however very old and not up to date offers there. That brought me to the idea to drop the prices after a certain time.

The item unit price is dropped

by 25% after 30 days
by 50% (of the previous value) after 60 days
by 75% (of the previous value) after 85 days

That way it should feel less “dead” over time and everyone can enjoy it, even if the full wipe is coming.

Some other tweaks will be going life such as individual stealthing / unstealthing of ships for example.

So discuss in a good way the coming changes and stay tuned for HWS 8!

Your HWS Team

P.S.: It’s about time again, so let me warm up the repeater: the full wipe is currently planned for the 16th march. However we have to see how Alpha 8 progresses. If it is most likely couple of weeks coming later we will do a full wipe nevertheless and another full wipe on Alpha 8 again.

P.P.S.: As always the disclaimer that I take the right to remove any reply going off-topic, toxic, stupid, etc. without warning

Stunner666 · February 17, 2018, 5:32pm

That could be easy abuse from players with more Accs!
I know players with 3 and more ACC´s.
And I know enough factions who would abuse this…

RexXxuS · February 17, 2018, 5:35pm

Not really as we thought about it and read again:

But it is a potential subject to abuse in general. In every multiplayer game like this multiple accounts are used for advantage.
We have to check more often or reduce the 10 days or do some other checks to proof that all players are “legit”.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 5:46pm

Hey Rexxus! This looks exciting but a quick question: Are you going to remove the hard-cap on GG? If so I recommend against it. Having that many bases and turrets in such a small area would undoubtedly crash the playfield.

Even our old big base complex on GG had at max 10 bases, and that’s already 240ish turrets firing and thats just the bases! Not to mention the svs/hvs and so on.

This game is optimised but it is NOT at all ready whatsoever for the hard cap to be removed on planets like GG. May be worth delaying removing the hard cap until we see how the new big planets play out.

Best regards and cheers for all the hardwork you do!
Wise.

Stunner666 · February 17, 2018, 5:48pm

Every 9 Days a short log in and go on

RexXxuS · February 17, 2018, 5:50pm

Hey, please read above: it is open for discussion. On some structure types yes, on some not.
I will do further analyzes before I decide and nobody participate in that topic.

You got hopefully the point that we will prevent that stupid way of abusers.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 5:54pm

Yeah I personally would be 100% against the removing of a hard base cap on GG. Anything with auto-tracking turrets (which are primarily the source of the lag) should be kept to a reasonable number. Such as HVs and Bases. SVs cause significantly less lag therefore the limit can remain higher than that for HVs and Bases.

Otherwise an established 30-base faction on GG will have it easy as the lag will be such that any attempt to remove them would likely result in a crash of the playfield. Let alone making it all-but impossible for svs and HVs to aim and fight on the attacking or defending sides.

Other than that though Rexxus I am loving the way you are trying to constantly improve the server and to combat the breakaway alt factions. Good on you for trying. And I am more than willing to help participate in this discussion. As well as our other experienced PVP members no doubt such as our friends from ACM and AAA. As well as our own GMC members and our Russian collegues that we enjoy pvping so much!

Juggoire · February 17, 2018, 6:28pm

I’ll wait and see if the optimisations Eleon implement for massive amounts of turrets actually mean anything, because currently an SV attacking 2 bases and 3 HVs on the ground means the fight becomes a slide-show.

For me, you could limit the number of HVs to an ALLIANCE to 2 per playfield (let them have class 5), 2 BA per ALLIANCE and 20 SVs (once again, per ALLIANCE). Alt factions become a non-issue, as they’re allied. Job done

As for the taxes - meh - never get taxed as I’m careful

Happy to help with anything you need. (But obviously, I do need time to work on the code for my aimbot )

Cryptolocker · February 17, 2018, 6:56pm

“Even our old big base complex on GG had at max 10 bases, and that’s already 240ish turrets firing and thats just the bases! Not to mention the svs/hvs and so on.” Does no one else think that the fact this was ever allowed is a bit absurd? 10 bases? Zerg mentalities are pure cancer in every game they touch.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:00pm

This was with 5 factions in a single alliance. and it still got attacked on mutliple occasions. At one point we lost four of the 10 bases.

It wasn’t a Zerg mentality whatsoever as the base complex stretched across one of the poles. Ultimately we took it down as it became too costly to defend thanks to ammo considerations and manpower.

Therefore I Believe in this case the base limit was fine. We were still attacked and still took losses. And I believe that we and the Russians thoroughly enjoyed attacking one-another. Nothing wrong with big factions as long as we play in a responsibly manner We did actually try and settle an agreement with our opposing enemy factions but unfortunately the said Agreement was broken by them therefore we had to fortify our base area more-so than we otherwise would have had to do.

Best regards
Wise.

anon76082228 · February 17, 2018, 7:01pm

Hey, unless something radically changes with performance the only change i am for is radically reducing size of bases, SV’s and HV’s. Currently almost every fight on HW/GG is a slideshow. Possibly even add a base limit per planet if it is possible, the game canno’t handle the amount of stuff on GG/HW. Possibly even add a base limit per planet if it is possible, the game can’t handle the amount of stuff on GG/HW.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:02pm

Don’t even get me started on what NA must look like with a 10-base limit PER faction right now. Must be terrible trying to attack anything on that playfield! 5 factions with 10 bases each; imagine that. That’s what your disdain should be aimed at Sir!

My point is about how as long as factions are sensible and don’t openly flaunt rules or just break things to the extreme then this makes sense. But i’m against removing hard limits on planets; even on bigger planets, for this reason alone; 50-odd bases in one alliance that will just nuke anything that comes close.

CaptainJack · February 17, 2018, 7:03pm

I fully agree with that patch. Yes, these monster lolstomping super faction did really park a lot of stuff permanently in ECC.

No i have to contradict to you, their reason was not lazyness or stupidity but just some arrogant „I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN“ behavior.

Very nice that you plan to limit these super rich tycoons.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:05pm

Yeah i remember one SV parked in ECC HQ at an annoying place for the entire season. Which meant someone was refreshing it to stop it from being deleted just to be annoying…I’m a member of a very rich faction and i’m also very pleased to see higher taxes. It makes sense.

Only the crazy-rich should be able to afford to park their big ships there. And then it would put a big dent in their wallets
Best regards
Wise.

Serious_Squirrel · February 17, 2018, 7:08pm

Taxes would have to be alot more expensive than that to outweigh the benefit of constructors cooking almost 24/7 @RexXxuS Otherwise I like to try new things so the rest seems interesting How many bases did the old GG factions used to have before the caps? I remember the most fun I was having was when cv could shoot on planet with rockets and bases were unlimited on GG (and that was for the joy of hand mining a single meteor off the back ramp of my cv before I got attacked.

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:13pm

Hi Squirrel. I’m no Rexxus but currently the limit is 2 per faction on GG which seems sensible IMHO.

Previously before the base buff and the new config it was 10 bases, and even they couldn’t see off about 6 or 7 dedicated SV fighters.

I think maintaining the base cap is the best idea for now. For the sake of FPS when attacking on GG and for server stability. Right now factions that choose to co-ordinate in an alliance can place bases in a way that support one-another but most can still be attacked in near-isolation compared to the others.

I think the issue is a massive disconnect between EU and NA pvp.

On NA you have one massive alliance that really does have a (somewhat but mostly) uncontested series of base complexes on GG and throughout NA HWS.

Whilst on EU you have two big alliances that are almost always fighting one-another with a real ebb and flow to combat. For instance right-now the Russian factions control GG. Whilst We had a really strong base complex on GG earlier in the season. And for the most part we stick to attacking one-another instead of interferring with smaller or newer factions (unless they interfere with us!).

Therefore whilst this big alliance on NA has nothing much really to pick on; on EU there is a consierable resource war going on most days of the week.

Serious_Squirrel · February 17, 2018, 7:17pm

I think GG should have no caps and cv should be able to shoot in atmo on it No holds barred hard pvp planet. I also think the damage of every single weapon still needs to be doubled as well as the aoe. Oh and HV should have combat steel equivalent block hp (could be done by modding the artificial mass blocks in the config)

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:21pm

Would crash the playfield I believe. Imagine this: CV-auto-turrets+Base-auto-turrets+HV-auto-turrets+the sheer mass of blocks moving and updating with the damaged ships and bases.

It would be a calamity and would probably result in the good ole’ days of serverside crashes during big combat. (When we crashed the server by fighting SWP in a 10vs13CV fight in Homeworld space in 5.0)

The game has come a long way in terms of optimisation. But i don’t think it has come that far enough yet for this kind of limitation to be lifted.

Finally from a PVP standpoint a CV can’t really do anything that an SV can’t. SV’s can tank, they can deal good DPS. Makes a CV fighting bases seem rather obsolete. Other than tanking which many of us frown-upon due to the lag-inducing implications of a tank-cv.

Best regards and i respect your opinion despite me disagreeing with it Wise.

Serious_Squirrel · February 17, 2018, 7:22pm

Yes I want to break things its the only way to test

Wiseman738 · February 17, 2018, 7:30pm

I like this kind of ‘testing’

On a serious note however away from testing. I’d love to see some sort of auto-kick feature for those AFK from a faction for more than say 30 days. As right now one cannot-kick offline-players. Therefore in the past we have had our faction look like it is huge when in fact many were not active anymore. This feature would allow us to more accurately reflect the size of specific factions.

Best regards
Wise.