MAKING it illegal to sell blue print with out the permission from the owner

support

#1

@ RexXxuS I have been doing a poll as you probably know about about making it illegal to sell other peoples blue prints with no permission from the owner
and a maturity of the community want it to be illegal to sell captured blue print
as you will see in the result of this poll.


so the community have spoke
this need to be illegal to sell the blue print on ecc or put it on the workshop!
so can you make it illegal .


#2

So I get massively pinged, redundancy left and right and what not.
31 Votes have placed from 1000+ active players…

image

It’s not that representative. But at least the 70/30 ratio was more or less met.

Two things now.

  1. My own personal opinion is that it’s a gameplay aspect everyone should obviously know of. Call it role play or immersion. If someone spent 100 hours on a ship blueprint it does not mean it’s invincible and can never get captured. Lags/bugs/disconnects is a “fair” condition for everyone. And since we have the Garage feature, it can be seen as Black Market and it is quite a lucrative business. Especially if we have the Bounty Hunter Board, where you can take always revenge with some counter-role-play.
    In no other PvP game I saw a server owner needed “to hold the hand” (symbolic meaning of take care of every gameplay aspect Eleon didn’t care in the first place) of players that much as they have to do in Empyrion — or maybe it’s just me.

  2. However, while I lay down a fundament for many players and sometimes it’s needed to play Dictator, it has big influence on the Community. Be it the chat behavior, the faction policies of infiltration or overall relevance in PvP. I respect if the majority in the minority does not like this common theme around Black Market.
    Nevertheless, as often said, I will NOT babysit the Garage 24/7 now, nor scroll endless of “look this was my ship!” nor “he got for SURE my blueprint over there!” messages!
    It’s your part now, to make legit and valid suggestions, how this policing of selling ships should look like without any form of the above scenarios!
    A rewording of the current 2.1.2 Rule is simple but a rule which does not get enforced is no rule and enforcing the rule seem for me exactly the scenarios mentioned above.
    The only logic enforcement of that request is: @Jascha will remove the feature to sell player ships all together! Only the ts:buy command will be available for regular players. That would also impact certain Supporter, who bought the “NPC Trader” Package, which wanted to sell their own ships.
    Otherwise: show me an alternative please.

Edit: But then again: if we remove that chatbot sell feature, some can go ahead and sell the ships anyway “under the hand”. It’s a never ending issue.


Pvp ships
#3

I may be incorrect but I think there is an issue here.
Players who do not own an NPC trader are able to sell ships currently if I am not mistaken and most of the people selling these ships (at least on NA server) do not have NPC trader


#4

Sure, but only at the given locations.
NPC Trader have the ability to sell their ships at their own built base. For example in Eden System.


#5

so why dont you just make it illegle but if thay are caped doing so thay will get a big fine


#6

I don’t know 100% what that means… Captured? Caught?
English abbreviations are for a german an accepted challenge but very special words or wrong spelled words a defeat. Please make sure to spell at least the verbs / adjectives correctly — especially in a Poll.

Anyways, let’s assume you mean caught by the meaning of this topic.
I said above: I will NOT be the guy who decide what that means. How do I know, as a server owner, if it’s a caught ship or not?
By the title? No. Everyone can name it as they want.
By the Creator name in the statistic window? No. Everyone can change that if they want.
By the logs? No. Too time consuming and older than 3 days = gone.
By change of the Ownership? No. I saw ships from last season for sale!?
By a timelapse video of how you created “that” ship? No. A human is able to reproduce others work very carefully by his own after a while.
By a massive poll and community meeting session where proofs get thrown around until we really get the legit and only blueprint owner? No. I have also a real life and other things to do.

In its full detail spectrum of time consuming process: I, as a server owner, can never be 100% sure if that is your work or not. Period.


#7

Something we talked a little bit about ages ago Rex, was the ability to prevent blueprinting on certain playfields.
If i remember correctly, you were considering asking Eleon about it.

Don’t get me wrong, i have no issues with people blueprinting my stuff, as long as it was done fairly.
There’s nothing more annoying then loosing blueprints you have spent countless hours on when this mess of a game decide to randomly crash you for no reason.


#8

Well preventing to blueprint stuff seems to be a little insane. There is already people that alt-f4 for not giving a kill to your opponent, i imagine getting worse to save the blueprint.
And honestly i do pvp to capture BP… if you take away the main reason to pvp ing nobody will pvp anymore.
You can choose to fly in pve sectors too. I like the adrenaline of being in pvp sector and try to not get killed to save my bp from enemies.
The best stuff that Eleon can do is to manage better the permissions in a faction.
Something like that members cannot save bps of a faction ship.


#9

Its a grey area isnt it the whole BP thing.

Sure people spend lots of time working on them, but if you dont want your ships to be stolen you should not make ships and use them in a pvp game where part and parcel of the package of pvp is the ability to claim entities.

This is an issue that eleon needs to deal with and RexXxuS you should not have to go out your way to code around it, you do and have done so much already for HWS lol its not your job to fix everything ^-^

As frustrating as it may be for others, by entering this server you agree that any bp you spawn may possibly be captured in pvp and sold within the server.

That’s what you need to do Rex mate put that as a disclaimer, welcome message, pda etc etc

Don’t bend your community and system around an issue that is actually just part of normal game play.

Thats just my 2 cents anyway :slight_smile:


#10

Guys I know you are very proud on your creations, but to be honest all are the same. Very rarly somebody comes in with something new, times when there were veterans holding some knowledge others didnt have are long time gone.
Class 1 3k blocks dont leave much space for some secret unbeatable design. My opinion is that time spent on building your own stuff is investment which is gone already once you spawn it.

In this game it takes aproximatly 30s to loose new blueprint. Spawn it, go to planet, game crashed, bp captured. Thats it.

We all heard about intelectuall property, but my opinion is that once you spawn your bp you are giving others option to capture your intelectuall property and once someone captures it, its also his. Thats actualy what PvP in this game is about, isnt it?
Its part of risk, its like agreement. I spawned it so I take a risk that my intelectuall property is put on public for capture. If you dont wont to risk/loose your intelectuall property dont spawn it.

Feels a bit like poker. Your BPs goes to pool, winner takes it all. You probably wont tell poker winner how hes supposed to use money he has won.


#11

Completly agree, we were typing basicly same thing at same time lol.


#12

This is basically it - leave it the way it is because anything else becomes insane.
Simple: dont take what you arent willing to risk into PVP.

If a little niche of the community throws a big enough fit to ruin yet another feature of HWS, I will quite spitefully only fly enemy captured ships and wont hesitate to leave them all over the place where they can easily be captured by whoever the heck. Your captured BPs will become free to basically anyone who plays regularly without any regard for profit, RP, or etc.


#13

The results of this poll were posted less than 24 hours after the poll began. Also, there was a previous poll in which 61% voted in favor of keeping the system the way it is where selling blueprints is legal.

This poll is garbage! It was neither official nor fair considering that this poll was repeated until the OP got the results he wanted.

https://gyazo.com/9ecab94e277719da805ee47d644e4d40


#14

I am against any regulation. Thats the Risk of PVP. And as long it stays in the Community everything is fine in my eyes :slight_smile:


#15

So once againg the true PVP roll playing community gets the short stick because a bunch of anti roll players want to wear white hats and keep up coming PVP factions from accessing their top secret technology. O’ wait! What technology? Really? There is not one CV or SV design out there that is better or worse then the others. The only thing is weapon and component placement along with the number of blocks. What are people really losing other then time of the design build? NOTHING! Not since speeds were locked. So what are we all really arguing about? Stop making this so tuff on RexXxus and play the roll of your faction Choice and move on.

People need to get real lives if they are going to let a ROLL PLAY GAME rule their lives. Grow up!


#16

In regards to the poll being unfair, it was recreated a 3rd time because the person who started the first one so badly miss-worded the poll that people who where against the system voted for the system and vise-versa.

The 2nd one he created was also miss-worded but people understood it partly enough to vote for their preferred side, but it implicated the mere act of capturing a blueprint, thus the even split.

The poll, created by me, ran for 2 days, and was properly worded. The results speak for themselves, 6 ABN, and everyone else on the side of not selling faction blueprints.
It is in fact still up and can at any time be voted on.

This system only serves to create drama, it doesn’t inspire innovation, only hampers it. And to all of you thinking that blueprint capture is what we are trying to get rid of, know that we only wish to get rid of selling other faction’s blueprints.

Onto the suggestion on how to moderate it:
I suggest rexxxus that you moderate it the same way you do with faction griefers or people who steal blueprints while spying on them. If over 70% of the ship is the same construction as the one being sold, then the proof lies there.

The onus should be on the individual factions to prove their intellectual property. Most if not all opportunistic selling will most likely end with just a simple rule being put in place “Do not sell other factions blueprints in HWS”

I simply suggest you allow the factions to self-moderate this particular issue. If you require more assistance in moderating this, perhaps the HWS police can be involved.

I can personally can very easily prove if a ship is mine or not by simply demonstrating the evolution (the version changes) up until that point. Most designers can do the same.

As long as the rule is in place, we should be a-ok.


#17

No one is proposing to stop capture of blueprints.
No one is saying that up and coming factions can’t capture a blueprint and study it
No one is saying we want to keep our “top secret technology”

What we are saying is that this system is inherently flawed, only really promoting toxicity ingame, and brings nothing to the table except the ability for people to publicly shame victims of war.

If you truly believe that all designs are equal, then this should be of no concern to you. If newer factions require help, sell them your own blueprints as has been done in the past.

(As has been, and is currently being done by @Paxxo1985)


#18

You may fly that enemy captured blueprint all you like, but the act of selling is does nothing for the server except fill the need for players to farm salt. It creates a negative environment where factions are concerned to use blueprints or die for fear of being publicly mocked and having their “failures” being sold off at ECC.

And this isn’t a little niche of the community. It’s most of the community. I would like to point out that of the 6 votes in favor of the current system, all of them are from ABN.

@_Furious_Hellfire
This type of logic prevents free gameplay by implying we need to be concerned with a couple of blocks being lost.

Capturing is fine, publicly displaying and selling other people’s stuff 3+ months on from the battle is simply toxic, unfun, and at best destructive.


#19

This was not an official poll, the window of time in which to vote was short, very few voted, and for this reason there are now 3 poorly constructed polls which were attempts to make this a huge dramatic thing.
(which only 31 total people managed to get sucked out of their cockpits and thrown into)
So its not even a huge thing,

Its just a dramatic one.<
(And the people selling the ships are specifically trying not to be dramatic.)

You managed to gather 21 people to your cause after all the drama.
A drop in the bucket of the HWS community.

Please just let it go? I really feel bad Rex had to get involved at all over 21 unhappy people who can totally just play PVE or fly ships other than their own in PVP if they are afraid to lose things.


#20

21 Active, dedicated veterans of 2 + seasons
21 Active, reliable donors to the server
21 Active, pvp players who are all here because of the repeated concern over the toxicity created by this system.

Rexxxus ASKED for this to be debated. He told us that if we where really concerned, to start a poll. We did.
Rexxxus is a great fella, and he understands the need for public debate on important issues.

The counter argument presented in favor of keeping the current system is that by removing this feature we are removing the rights of the player, what about the rights of the factions involved?

What about the limitations of losing a new blueprint that spreads like wildfire throughout the server.

What about the limitations of being unable to use newer blueprints because god forbid you lose it, you’ll hear about it for WEEKS and it’ll be sold in ECC for months!

What about the rights of the factions not to get their defeats publicly displayed on ECC?

What about the rights of factions to stop uninformed players from judging an entire side simply because one side took up the entire ECC platform with 3 month old corpses of battles long since passed?