Some suggestions to balance resource economy and PVP

So following the discussion we had today in Discord, gonna suggest 2 changes I thought that are needed to balance the economy in-game.

1º. Nerf the deconstructor return rate, I’d suggest a 20% return rate instead of the 100% actual return rate.

Reasons: NPC traders. Most of the NPC traders packs were made to throw the content into a factory and build ships with them. But not only that, since the deconstructor was released, you can also throw the contents of the pack into one and convert the resources into anything you want.

If you calculate the cost of some of the resources you get from a pack, and convert it to market prices, you could get erestrum at 2cr each ingot. More common resources are even cheaper.

To give an example, my NPC trader (free advertisement, yay!) sell this:

Each item gives you the following:

T2 Gen: 35 Sath, 22 Iron, 70 Neod, 15 Ere, 15 Zasc, 37 Cobalt, 24 Silicon, 43 Copper, 4 minutes factory reduction.
XL Thruster: 32 Sath, 9 Iron, 80 Neod, 154 Ere, 154 Zasc, 32 Cobalt, 10 Silicon, 6 Copper, 3 minutes factory reduction.
Warp Drive: 118 Sath, 24 Iron, 170 Neod, 72 Cobalt, 2 Silicon, 2 Copper, 4 minutes factory reduction.

For 450k cr and 9 RP, you get the following resources:

  • 16500 iron ingots
  • 55500 sathium ingots
  • 10800 silicon ingots
  • 42300 cobalt ingots
  • 96000 neodymium ingots
  • 50700 zascosium ingots
  • 50700 erestrum ingots
  • 3300 minutes reduction in factory

Comparing it to market prices, selling resources normally through the HWS marketplace between players is pointless, because ingots of everything would have to be sold for 1-3cr to compete against the NPC traders.

Nerfing the NPC traders directly would also be hard, since it’s a support package, that helps to pay for server costs.

So instead, nerfing the deconstructor reduce the usages the NPC packs can have, returning them to what they were made for before, to throw them into the factory to reduce timers. I feel like they are still OP nonetheless, but with the deconstructor they are even more absurd.

2.- Make armored blocks, combat blocks and armored concrete blocks much more expensive.

Reasons: It feel a little odd that in a PVP exchange, the player shooting is wasting more resources than the one being shot. Considering aswell that people can warp away or disengage easily in middle of a fight, make a huge loss for players attacking and getting nothing on return. Being shot should be more expensive than shooting, I think.

Also, the cheap prices for blocks compared to the prices for ammo, give players the possibility of making huge cheap defense bases than cost more to destroy than to build. At the end, if the base is not holding an important POI or resource, they are ignored instead of being destroyed even if they are not being actively defended by players.

It feels a little odd than defense, and even running away is so cheap, compared to actual attacking and destroying. Blocks are mostly made of iron and sathium (stone aswell for concrete), than are common resources, so making them more expensive to build shouldn’t be that harsh on players, yet would reduce how easily is to spam those blocks everywhere. Losing a ship would be an important lose, the same as shooting a ship only for it to warp away hurts the attacking players.

Those are my few suggestions for now. Would like to hear what other players feel, specially the ones that play PVP actively or veterans with tons of resources. This could add a resource sink that could work nicely, considering how easily is right now to stack resources.

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I agree, the deconstruction return should not be 100%. No where in manufacturing will you ever yield a return rate of 100%. That being said, 20% is extreme. I feel more like 70% return would be a more balanced return rate without going to the extreme. But your problem isn’t so much the return rate and more of the NPC Traders (as you stated multiple times in Discord). I do not use the NPC Traders often so I do not want to get into it as I am sure there are a lot more qualified people out there.

I disagree with this 100%. PVPers lose multiple ships on a daily basis. If the enemy warps, half the fun is hunting (my opinion). Shooting should cost you more. You have to pay for repairs and ammo cost (unless you make ammo free).

As you are not a PVPer I can see how you can think this. I can assume you do not live in PVP. A lot of factions will attack a base just to kill it because the color is red. Look at GG last season (NA), The Empire (TAW, ABN, ACP, TCB) threw countless ships and dropped countless bomb on the Rebels. For no other reason than to cause trouble or remove them from GG. They "held" GG but in no real significant way. I spent hours mining and they would never found me or attacked me. They were not protecting a resource as I was able to make millions mining.

I feel that you are suggesting solutions to a problem you dont enjoy doing. This is all my opinion and not that of TAW, ABN, ACP, TCB or the Rebels.


Have to disagree with your deconstructor nerf. It enables me to use up some of my vast reserves of things like power coils. Converting into erestrum based ammo. Rather nerf those cheaty-feeling NPC traders.


I mean, nerfing those would solve many issues, but again, people have paid money for those to support the server. Suddenly nerfing them, dunno…

I disagree with this entire post. Entirely.
One of the major reasons pvp is so active in HWS, is because of its ease of accessibility.
Everything is fine as is, just adjust the NPC traders to be inline with market value.

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Said people are also vets who understand when balance changes are required. Some of said vets also knew the value of their NPC traders when they suggested them lol!

I also disagree with nerfing the de-constructors because players who attack POI for the loot in chests get a lot of their materials from turrets/engines/constructors/etc they capture there.People who BUY packages should be able to get 100% of the parts in them.:alien::rocket::space_invader::artificial_satellite::sunglasses:

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I agree… If it’s such an issue with NPC Traders then maybe they need to be adjusted to reflect market cost instead of nerfing other mechanics. The deconstructor is a time saver to turn all those non-conforming devices/blocks into something usable and easily stored.


Nerfing the NPC traders would solve it directly, I’d still nerf the deconstructor return rate. 100% is absurd.

And there is still the issue with blocks being absurdly cheap, allowing people to spam things to shoot with no care at all. There is not really any resource economy with such huge surplus.

That’s the point. PVP doesn’t need restraints. It needs purpose. HWS has it via GG and it’s out of game features.

Most of the resources like erestrum, zascosium, magnesium are mostly in PVP areas to provide a point to fight for those and is completely ignored because the huge surplus.

And to be fair, I think all you guys fighting for gold have already more than enough gold. Like is there a point for you guys to mine more gold? XD

Based in the data people that have mined in GG could make 50 millions cr a day just by mining there. With so much money doing daily, what’s the point of making even more money?

My suggestion would be to actually make a lack of resources so people actually fight for those, as a purpose. Right now I can make a HUGE AMOUNT of resources daily by mining in PVE (and the expenditures are very very small). Money is the same, once I have OCD7 and EB5, I don’t even need to make gold anymore.

The economy right now feels way too generous.

One thing to note also, you started on a good season for resources. In some seasons past they have been more scarce and only found in quantities in pvp space. Add with that the deconstructor being a new device has had a major impact on resources and how they are obtained.

Add in the trading system and a way to make good money without mining gold. The question becomes does it need tweaking, and if so how much and in what aspect?


It’s never enough when you have bunkers to bid on. Lol. Or 100 mil garage ships to buy.

I have been told this season GG bunkers were 250m each. Considering a faction of 5 players with EB5, making that money is very easy. Hell, I have that kind of money already with only 300 hours in the server.

Dude, you got lucky with the abundance of money-making mechanics this season. Our v2 bunker costs 302 mil for a faction of 3, which took some grinding. The v1 probably could’ve gone for more. This season is probably the easiest of any for making money.

Would have gone upto 1billion but most of the players capped out at 100m due to not being able to use OCD gold conversion. Crazy.

I’m not talking about the new money making methods. Any veteran already established in the server can sell some gold, buy EB5 in both NA and EU servers and make 5m daily per players. The return is huge.

A faction of 5 players would make 25m daily with that method, just by writing eb:interest in both servers daily.

EDIT: Btw, the thread is about deconstructor nerf and making pvp blocks more expensive. We are not discussing OCD or EB or anything like that. Let’s focus on just the suggestions made in this thread.

Aside from the point of this post, my take is that you don’t like that longtime players have any advantage over you. That is painfully obvious both here and in discord.

As for the content of the post:
As gaspra said, some people get their materials from POIs. Deconstructors are new to Empyrion and underused as it is. If someone isn’t deconstructing items, they could just be stuffing them in their factory for the 100% of the material value anyway. While a 100% return on mats might not be realistic, most players I’d wager aren’t using this method anyway and changing it would solve nothing. Nerfing it into the ground wouldn’t do any good.


Yes, ships can be replaced. Yes, us veterans feel it every time. As much as you may not believe it, most people aren’t storing 20m sathium in there. That’s a waste. While ammo does cost a lot, I can’t imagine a reason to increase the cost of basic building blocks. When a ship sustains too much damage (Let’s say 2k/3k for a SV) you recycle it or deconstruct it if able. Recycling it you lose another 200 blocks and it costs you 20k to do so. I’ll agree that isn’t a lot, but remember you’re firing ammo too. ATM the server may feel unbalanced due to the instant spawns. Realistically, blueprints have their production time. So losing a ship means you lose the ship itself, its ammo, and the time to produce a new one. I think that is costly enough and upping the resource cost isn’t going to do PVP any favors.

Ok. Time to dive in. I’ve sort of only scanned this thread so forgive me if i make any big presumptions please.

This post will focus on three things.
NPC traders.
Money Sinks.

  1. Deconstructor. In my opinion 100% return rate is a little bit high. I’d down it to anything between 50-80%. Or maybe have some sort of scalable upgradeable system, like a deconstructor return rate. But i could be dreaming. I won’t lie that i have processed a crap-ton of power coils. And i’ve managed to get an enormous amount of erestrum and zascosium out of them. But this is only a secondary issue for me.

  2. NPC traders are very powerful in their current form, and in the long run there may be a solid argument for changing how their costs are calculated. First thing i would do, is have a formula to work out a minimum cost; then after that let the player of the NPC trader decide how much their package should cost. As right now they don’t get to choose. This way you may have people be a little bit more sensible with their pricing.


It’s important to remember that compared to the old NPC traders, these new ones are pretty tame. The only super duper crazy one is the power coils. 25K power coils for 25 RP and less than a million credits. That’s one hell of a purchase. But in the old days you could literally buy like 25k of large constructors per trade haha. So these days they are considerably more balanced. But there is room for extra work on them.

  1. PVP. Despite this season having lots of PVE playfields with easily obtainable rare resources there has still been significant PVP, which has also been event based but mostly emergent like the good ole’ days.

For PVP i think SV combat is pretty awesome, and bases feel meaty. My only problem is with CV combat, class 7 cvs everywhere. Would be nice if a couple of playfields had lower CV class size, for some quicker and less forgiving battles like the good ole’ days where core targeting was a thing. (Because let’s be honest, Eleon removed core targeting so they could say that they had ‘fixed’ the lag-shot problem, and we all know how false that is…).

Maybe next season a significant reduction of the amount of rare and semi rare mats in PVE, to encourage more PVP crossover, but there should still be some positions in PVE with rare and semi rare mats that get regularly farmed.

Ok onto the big one, this bit is going to be long so prepare yourselves! MONEY SINKS:

  • One thing i’ll agree with Fasgort on is that 2.5mil a day is nice, but i don’t think it should be nerfed, not at all. From my prior experience as a member of HWS i’ve witnessed an 85% nerfed Orbital Auto Miner. A 90% nerfed OCD (500k to 50k) about a 60% nerfed NPC trader (14k cons per trade to 300, but other ones are still almighty, e.g power coils.) And about a 95% nerf in interest rates (2.5mil daily down from 50mil.)

So we need to be VERY careful about nerf suggestions…as some vets (not me) are still feeling the punch from prior changes, it’s easy to suggest a nerf as quick fix measure, but all it really does is hurt the newer players who aren’t quite as intensive as you in their playstyle @Fasgort.

Instead we should have more money sincs: For instance, look at how much money was spent on bunkers between EU and NA…Over 1 billion credits in total. That would take over 400 days of interest to pay that money back…So don’t under-estimate the power of the money sink.

I would propose several ‘high tier’ options for wealthy players with no progression left (Such as those with OCD7 and Bank 5; something to keep them going.)
I would propose basically a ‘prestige’ style-system.

Orbital AutoMiner
For my prestige system here, you could prestige either an individual miner or the entire thing, and as a result all of its levels and fuel would reset back to 1. However upon buying it all back up to 10 you would have say a 10% extra resource income, and a 10% higher stacking rate. And upon each ‘prestige’ it could cost progressively more.

  • Prestige 1 5 Million 10RP. (This doesn’t include the cost for purchasing each AM level upto 10.)

  • Prestige 2 7.5 Million 20RP.

  • Prestige 3 11 Million 35RP.

  • Prestige 4 15 Million 60RP.

  • Prestige 5 25 Million , 100RP. (This would be a 50% upgrade on the curret OAM. The price is not prohibitive for now, maybe an increase in RP or Credit requirement would be greater, but you guys get the idea.


I propose a similar system for OCD, but at much greater cost, and only rising in 5% increments. But instead of requiring an OCD reset (which would be extreme), it would cost 10% of the OCD level cost per 5% increase in slot capacity (not an increase in slots).

E.g OCD 5 would cost 500K for a 5% increase.
Whereas OCD7 would cost 70mil for a 5% increase…here there is a problem, as it stays considerably cheaper for the level 5, at some point they could compete with a ‘stock’ ‘vanilla’ OCD lvl 7. So some further thought shall be required for this.

Skill Tree
I know this is a while away yet. But i have a previous skill tree proposal which i’m going to shamelessly advertise here: Skill-Tree suggestion for 9.0

With my suggestion in mind, it could be used to help reduce the cost of ‘prestige-ing’ the OCD and Orbital Autominers.

TL:DR I believe in adding more features for people to spend money for, instead of simply taking away from the current features.

Finally, the argument could be made that my proposal widens the gap between the top and the bottom, and that would be a fair statement, but as you see currently. For a guy to ‘prestige’ his LVL 7 OCD by 50% would require 700 million. Whilst for a lvl 5 OCD merely costs 2.5Mil (this needs fixing and consideration, i’ll leave it to you guys to come up with ideas.)

Best regards

PS: I hope this post is intelligible, i wrote it shortly after waking up. :slight_smile:

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People who buy OCD 7 are brain damaged :joy: (joking, joking, but really…)