Eleon Marketplace or HWS Marketplace?

HWS General Discussion
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1

What do you prefer (for HWS 4.0 maybe)?

  • Eleon Marketplace - global and not good for traders but nice GUI integrated in the game
  • HWS Marketplace - local and player driven but no GUI ingame -> over HWS Connect

0 voters

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So like this topic and this one we try to start a poll what you want or think about the current marketplace.

Since we want to provide a kind of role play in HWS the current marketplace isn’t good for traders and making some things regarding the survival game aspect obsolete.
If this discussion creates a clear and good result we can provide to the devs so they can improve their marketplace this would be even better.

So just quick:

Eleon Marketplace

  • How to deal with 0 Credits wanted offers?
  • How to focus more local objectives?

HWS Marketplace

  • in Elemental Marketplace a new building will come up with local shops (but can be placed everywhere)
  • in each shop there is a trading zone where you can place your offers. These offers would be shown in HWS Connect to others
  • player need to fly there to trade your items
  • you could trade everything in your inventory. No restrictions
  • the normal HWS mechanics like waiting till the system recognize you in the trading zone, you have to relog, etc.

Remember: this is still a different approach than the coming NPC Trader.

3

And what we must choose? I couldnt understand dat variants.

1st - 2 questions
2nd - Marketplace on HWS Connect.

About what we votes? If we take 1st - we got answers, or what? :smiley:

4

1st option we don’t change anything but maybe have a discussion we Skype to devs

2st option we turn off eleon marketplace and making our feature awesome again. (with her Connect 2.0 you can trade on website and get feedback Ingame and more)

5

Im for STATION-Marketplace, not for global, as it made now. Wonna trade - move to Marketplace. Marketplaces must be placed in ALL systems, and have their OWN list of trade…

Its 2nd variant?

6

Been playing a few days, love the server features, global marketplace does make it a bit too easy to get things, a few rare ingots here and there but doesnt give you much reason to meet up with traders etc, so im all for a localized system (just need to remember to keep fuel and o2 in OCD :smiley:)

7

In game market is a joke and possibly one of the worst UI ever.

Definitely happy with your approach as it caters more for a player driven economy that doesnt suck because of poor implementation and insta delivery. If we implement this I don’t see a need for the NPC trader tbh, let traders fulfil the market for needed items.

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8

I fear not everyone will participate in the poll and hater gonna hate if we turn it off. It needs more time to evaluate I think.

Yeah they shouldn’t be in conflict with the normal trader. They are just an ultimative static way of selling stuff to people. They are on a different location too. Today at evening you see what you can do with them also :wink:

eh, what? Then you have a global market again…
OWN list, yeah, every shop has different traders / prices there

9

Nope. I speak about Marketplace, which fills by players on place. Not from every where, but inside it. That what I mean.

And BUY u could only there (so u need visit it). And own list of goods/prices, will create some transportation business, when u need or ask to transport some one some goods to your system Marketplace, or move for them by yourself.

10

I think he means trade station in each system but they have their own lists, not global.

I know what you mean on the ‘haters gonna hate’ side of things, but I see it slightly differently and hope you don’t take this the wrong way…

HWS is great, it has given life to an early alpha game in a way the devs probably didn’t envisage. The effort you guys have put in is amazing BUT it needs a clear vision for what it is going to be as the core game develops. What I haven’t seen (happy to be pointed in the right direction) is a set of principles or visions which HWS will stand for as the game continues. They should be high level enough to give you some flexibility as the game changes but allow decisions like the above to have a grounding in something which is not tied to a current state or version of the game.

Here’s an example (one I would like to see)

HWS Principle - HWS will primarily support a Player vs Player model in all aspects of the game whilst ensuring a safe space for new players to learn and adapt to the game.

This sets a clear intention for HWS, when people join they can ‘get’ that this isn’t primarily a safe sandbox to build giant ePeens without engaging with other players. It then also provides a basis for other descisions such as keeping a level of PvE, working on the marketplace etc etc

Things right now tend to be very reactive which is where complications arise as people can understandably either not understand why something has changed or berate you because they don’t see a valid reason for it.

Taking the marketplace, if HWS wants more player interaction, the change (at this point in time becuase of the poor ingame market) makes sense. Maybe, in a few months Eleon release a better in game market that meets the principle in a better way than the HWS implementation, as such HWS can change and people can understand why.

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11

Marketplace - I speak about: Space Trade Station. I named it so (((((

12

Yes man! Thx, thats right!

13

Global market is pretty bad, I pointed out earlier its used less for trading and more from an exploit of keeping gold etc safe.

Insta trade isn’t immersive at all also, Most games have a…go here…give to this NPC/player to trade. At times that can be monotonous but with a game lacking in so many areas it will give more depth, also the server will be even more awesome. It would come with some flaws, however they will definitely be outweighed.

The way the server is run i know that the HWS feature will make it so much better than it is now just through sheer commitment.

BRING DOWN THE MARKET i say! :smiley:

14

I partially agree with your talk about the “HWS Principle”, but HWS is a growing community and as we seen for the “PvE Orbits” question, we can create a poll here and 1 month later the community acts in a way totally different with the result of the poll…because the “Community Principle” has changed.

As far as i can see, Rexx, Jas and the rest of the admins are more likely to “listen” to the community needs and “adapt” the game to the actual needs without the use of a kind of “Ideal dictatorship” which could make things easier, but also less…uhm…how to say it in english…uhm…acceptable by the community.

So, to answer to your “PvP example”, right now i can feel a strong need for PvP features and is right to move that way NOW, but later maybe “PvE people” can start to grow or start to leave, so the balance can change and so the choice/roads to follow.

Don’t know if is clear what i mean :smiley:

Anyway i’m for LOCAL MARKETS without Eleon Marketplace as said in the relative thread!

15

I get what you mean sage, attitudes do change but if the principles are written in the right way they can be flexible enough to cater for those changes.

The PvE orbits thing was an attempt to balance a couple of principles and it might not seem to work for some people, thats absolutely fine in my eyes, we will have to deal with that. The thing that seems to irk people is when they don’t understand why A is changed to B. If PvE orbits isn’t working we can change it, but change it to what and why?

Thats why I think having some more abstract principles that inform everyone what the ‘golden state’ for the game is intended to be will help focus discussion.

Right now I couldn’t really explain to someone if this server is ‘PvP’ or no. If you look at it from one side there is a lot of PvE and a lot of people making posts about the state of PvE in the game. Is the server going to go more PvE and less PvP? We don’t know because there isnt a principle which says what ideally the game will be like.

If HWS went full PvP some people will leave as they want PvE, if it goes full PvE others will leave as they want PvP. The worst thing is we have both PvE and PvP leaving as they can’t understand what the balance is meant to be and whether or not it fits their playstyle.

16

I´d like to add this link where a similiar discussion is going on:

https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/traders-or-people-who-abuse-this-faction-tag/570/1

Oh and i clearly choose Optoin 2 :smiley_cat:

17

i wonder if the structure allows for a half and half type system, you can freely buy from the market anywhere you want BUT you MUST go to the trade station (one central or many depending on how big/complex the database would need to be etc.) to collect your goods, equally you can ONLY place sell orders at the station but the credits will be put into your bank account at time of sale. I think this is actually how EVE online works, which opens up another RP role, Hauling things (may not be possible atm tho due to ownership)

18

Since it is our feature we can do this too. Some work. But a little recap:
we had first the HWS global marketplace. There you could sell and buy from anywhere with a price calculated dynamically. High demand = high prices and so on.
Then we had the HWS local marketplace. It was a bit confusing for some people but it was at a time without HWS Connect.

So your suggestion can be implemented maybe in the coming versions of it.

Hmm a vision / prinicple of HWS?
Making everyone happy and working like hell for HWS in our spare time? xD

No the problem with that is following @Kalsius: people don’t read. Some, like you, reading a lot, FAQ here, Rules there, Forum here, Ingame chat there and so on. But most of the people don’t. I stated at the beginning “HWS Campaign is freaking difficult, do not start here if you are a noob, etc.” and they started there and blamed. I have infos everywhere but people still asking this and that. Which is ok first, but some of them keep being lazy to inform themselves.

So yeah we could create principles which will maybe give a “red line” or make even a “Roadmap” (which I did in the HWS 3.0 announcement) but I fear it is again for nothing. And like @The_Whitesage said: it is an alpha game and things can change so quickly.
We are really trying to look what is good and what is bad / improving or give feedback.

I know that some would like… I don’t know a “Star Wars” Server where everyone knows… ooook, again… but at least they know what is going on.
We could say we are a PvP server with great features and playfields for even beginners. But since the game mechanic in its core (PvP lagg, corruption, etc) is broken we are kind of flexible how to tackle this problem.

I mean yeah, we really try to combine PvP and PvE which is damn hard. We never can make both people 100% happy but we think it is possible to keep things in balance. I admit that HWS 3.0 is right now too PvE orientated because:

  1. the device count bug
  2. too big universe
  3. some gameplay problems regarding factions

So for HWS 4.0 we already have good ideas to solve these three problems which will boost PvP but not damage PvE too much. Keyword: separated PvE <> PvP worlds for example.

Like one guy said: we are not a normal server anymore. We are doing already game development by our own in some ways. It was nothing we planned at the beginning but since we CAN we do and we think / hope many enjoying it.

But I agree that here and there you can fear that we just change stuff like we want and your known environment could go wrong. For that we are really really open minded and always appreciate feedback. We never go Yolo mode and doing things without explanations. You can always ask us and we maybe try to release a
“Current State of HWS guide” and a “Future plans of HWS guide”. Till we do our own survey for you xD

Just keep in mind that this is a lot of work and the bugs / drama are still the most time consuming thing right now.

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19

Only reason I’ve voting the keep the current system is because I think this isn’t a core issue for most players on HWS atm, and that you “dev” time is best spent on other projects. I do agree there needs to be some kind of limit on buy orders, if not outright disable them.

20

I see the votes are not very clear… hmm… maybe we implement our system before the big HWS 4.0 and you see if you like it or not.