The Case AGAINST removing OLP on EU

HWS General Discussion
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Hey folks, sadly i had to make yet another thread in response to some news i saw: The idea of removing OP from EU also. In my opinion this is a poor idea as it is implementing a ‘solution’ to something that is not a ‘problem’ on EU. Instead all it is doing is transferring the aftermath of NA drama and placing it onto the shoulders of EU pvp factions.

I for one (despite us not having any PVP bases up right now) am AGAINST removing offline protection for practical reasons also. A: As a result the increase in bases will induce far more lag and probably create far more drama and complaints about how difficult it is to dislodge factions, it will make it harder to fly SVs effectively causing more people to turn to HVs with their auto-fire turrets inducing EVEN-MORE lag; hence creating a vicious cycle.

Whereas secondly the removal of the ability to spawn bases will remove the whole concept of OP as a ‘weapon.’ I for one see no benefit for anybodies sake in EU at least for removing OP. It seems instead something that has been a non-issue for a while (OP) is suddenly being ‘fixed’ without anyone wanting it 'fixed (in this case turned off).

Finally offline protection is useful for smaller factions that can’t afford to be online all the time, such as the smaller factions, and provides them a small respite in the big bad world of PVP, turning off OP on EU will creat much more drama than it solves.

Rexxus please reconsider this decision, at the very least let us see what the other EU factions feel about the removal of OP before going ahead with it. Don’t let NA drama carry over to affecting EU gameplay please. Finally i’m aware they’ll be people posting on here who are not ‘stakeholders’ (baseowners) on the major PVP playfields, so forgive me if i value the opinion of those who are actually attempting to have a permanent presence on these planets (OPG+RED+UST+SHA+AAA+ACM+GMC+UMB+ASH). more-so than those who are looking to get a few cheap shots in during the early hours.

Best regards
Wise.

Source: [quote=“RexXxuS, post:144, topic:10356”]
To make it consistent EU will probably get rid of Offline Protection as well.
[/quote]

Personally for me the removal of OP on EU would basically feel like a punishment and a removal of a feature all to prevent the potential of a small amount of drama. Yes it will happen, but those people can be kicked/banned/imprisoned/thrown into a pit of zirax hunters!

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Opinion -->> I question how OLP really helps noobs though. While they are online they will get steamrolled, and while offline they cant mine anyways. It seems like many want GG to be a PvE zone where they can have a hand crafted fort made to last forever… Its PvP and things built there are ment to die. (I hate OLP in all forms, PvE playfields are the best OLP lol) <<-- Opinion

With that out of the way. I hope to god that the 10 base limit DOES NOT go to EU as well, it is heck. Just as you said the lag sucks!!! I just dont understand why its such a bad idea to have the same 2 bases, without OLP. You drop down, mine protected just the same, the next guy cleans up your base and takes his turn, or you fight it out. Hate when half of GG is cluttered with OLP bases all over the place, cant attack em, cant build near em, cant fly by em. And dont even know whats OLP and whats online.

Hmmm Here is a idea, can GG be the ONLY playfield with OLP off? Maybe homeworld as well.

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It doesn’t you are correct. However, it is the ‘idea’ of it that gives them a false sense of security. Like an emergency door on a Boeing 747.

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I disagree entirely it does help new players, and new factions, as they are normally much smaller and less well organised than the big factions; for instance take GMC; when we went to GG we went with our entire faction, to the point where our donator space was no longer producing anything in the constructors as there was nobody there, but OP still helped us as it prevented offline raiding. Even then we were attacked day and night EVERY DAY on GG; the combat was intense and fun! But after two weeks even with OP we called it quits as faction members were starting to burn out from about 14 hours of combat per day. And GG is about as far away from a PVE zone as it gets, trust me we at GMC know. Not a single day did we NOT get attacked and NOT attack someone.

Now let’s imagine a new faction, less organised; therefore they don’t bring ALL of their players to GG, as a result if one of them logs on in another playfield their op disables with nobody is there to defend it, which seems fair.

Also @Speed it depends on what time the ‘noobs’ log-on at. If they’re smart they’ll be nocturnal and play in the twilight hours where there are no RED+OPG or GMC+AAA+ACM. I know of several new factions that have become quite wealthy through either mining at specific times or allying up with one of the big factions. It has been quite a challenge for GMC to attack them as a result of OP being activated during our playtime; but that’s a good thing as it stops offline raiding which plagued the ole’ 5.0 and 6.0 days.

OP does give noobs one hell of an advantage as well as regular factions and allows their assets to be protected when they’re ot online.

On to my major and final point though is that the whole removal of OP is moot, as with base-spawning no-longer being a thing in 8.0 it will be much much harder to physically build some sort of OLP attack base; and even if someone does let’s just have a rule that ‘No offline-protected attack base will be built within firing range [540m] an enemy base.’. Furthermore i’d rather wait on the devs to disable offline protection from firing (or can we do that in the config?) as that’s the major point of contention these days.

TL:DR: @Speed I disagree entirely, and i’ve seen it all before; no OLP= offline base raiding. You won’t get PVP bases and you’ll go back to 5.0 and 6.0 where those without bunkers simply live in deep space; effectively removing roughly half of the PVP combat from the game. Is the current meta perfect? Naa, but is it the best we have ever had? Hell yes!

Best regards
Wise.

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Furthermore we at GMC have launched two major assaults on GG in the past two weeks, and both times we ocassionally hit OLP bases, but we simply waited or timed our attacks to reduce this chance greatly; if you plan your flybyes over GG then you will be rewarded with lots of OLP-off bases unprotected if attacking bases is what you’re after!

With respect I wonder how many folks these days were around in 5 and 6.0 and remember that nasty feeling of logging in with a giant hole in your base as whilst you were oversleep some nocturnal player or NA fella’ had come over and knocked out your base and everything in it in about 20 minutes. OLP might seem to be an annoyance at times but that is all it is; for the first time in about three or four SEASONs of HWS this is the first one where it has actually been strategically viable to have a permanent-fully-manned PVP base.

All the others it was simply pointless as EVERY morning without fail’ you’d wake up to nothing more than a smouldering ruin.

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I have to agree with Wiseman’s sentiment regarding the EU servers, but for a different reason, testing. I think it would be a better use of the season to test a “small” increase in max amount of BAs, to maybe 4, and keeping OP to see how the impact is with the smaller changes rather than larger.

Let the NA be the server for major changes where we learn good lessons and EU be the server where we make small tweaks each season based on combined feedback from both the EU and NA servers.

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I am quite lost on that topic and even forgot why I turned it off on NA. Why NA is so different than EU and why I had to do this inconsistency that I hate so much.

Currently I’m quite burned out regarding balancement and the survey didn’t help with that.

The next full wipe at 16th march and until alpha 8 will be released will be another test run for OP I think.

I think we have every rule against OP implement which can be implemented so why not. But rule breaker should be banned next time I think… that was the problem I didn’t do it.

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Thank you Rexxus, i was fearful at one point after seeing that ‘maybe’ point on another thread and felt I had to speak up.

As right now OLP for all its vices and issues is still far preferable to a 10-base offline-raiding META that leaves the PVP planet stakeholders (base-owners) feeling empty both literally and figureatively when it comes to an empty base in the morning that’s been raided by some unknown individual.

Thanks for your reply Rex and yes some of our players are also taking it easy until the next season! I know i’m working on a HUGE (class size 40) maze-runner style build that I may send to you at a later date once finished. Have a good day Sir!

Best regards
Wise.

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This is sensible

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This really becomes a question of what RexXxuS wants GG to be. If noobs and small factions Only playing at night with the idea of OLP is whats wanted… ok. Thats not really PvP though.

If you want a constant flow of combat you just cant beat dropping bases in a Hot LZ forceing some towers down, mineing out a desposit or two and getting out with the LOOT!!!

But with OLP it just becomes Hit B key, whos online? Ok I will drop a base logout, wait till 2 AM and mine then.

Its PvP right? Whats wrong with dropping bases and shooting stuff realtime and mining under pressure. Its what makes GG fun. OLP stops engagements. Heck, most big factions when they see a strong force LOG OFF FOR OLP. Again stopping the fight. Whats wrong with offline wipeing? I mean without it, bases on GG will be permanent, and first come first serve for the WHOLE season.

Might as well disable bases and just have 4 EGS bunkers. lol

Or BETTER YET have GG wipe everyday, this idea of permanent bases is… anti PvP.

Heck half the “noobs” on EU are NA players hopeing to avoid a fight, and come back to a OLP tower again the next day… You should have to SPEND MATS to get gold. Not setup and OLP saves the day.

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Only the largest factions have that, and on NA they were not even allowing others to join them. It was either pay to mine or fight, and they had 4 factions allied with 1 always offline for the OLP while the rest were online to defend. Now with OLP disabled they are recruiting like crazy because there is a real danger again… Us! The battles are always epic now, though lag is a major issue (please bring back 2 base max limit.)

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Hmm Clearly you haven’t been involved in this seasons fights for GG EU; i can tell through your post, as if you had you would realise just how non-sensical your ideas are.

The small factions on EU play smart, they figure out where a big fight is going down and avoid that area, or better yet they face the danger head on and use that diversion in order to gather more resources. The idea of ‘dropping bases’ is nice and that can happen irrelevant of offline protection or not. Most players I see drop a base down to mine with and either recycle that base and leave or leave the base there for the future, very rarely do these ‘one-stop-shop’ bases have OLP.

Hahah I have to laugh at this bit: “You should have to SPEND MATS to get gold. Not setup and OLP saves the day.” We went through about 50 turrets, 20 ships, and six or seven hovers PER NIGHT on our stay on GG on EU; this is why i can’t take what you say seriously, you haven’t been involved in these big faction fights from either the perspective of the big factions or the small factions that use these big confrontations to their advantage.

And there is everything wrong with offline raiding. The whole idea of offline-raiding is anti PVP, it becomes PVB instead; player vs base. Only difference is that the base is a static target that is unable to replace its own turrets or effectively harass an attacker. The whole idea of a PVP base is that it is for PVP;PLAYER VS PLAYER. not PLAYER VS UNMANNED BASE.

OLP does not ‘stop’ engagements, it encourages smart engagements, either when players are engaged elsewhere on the server or with a full on assault and it portrays a realistic sense of warfare where the base you want to take will be actively manned and protected. Instead to me it sounds like you’re looking for a free pass and an opportunity to raid some of these bases in a post-OLP world. Well i’m having none of that as frankly the ability for a base to have OLP enables its owners to have an active part in defending it, and you’re completely conflating and blaming OLP for many things that simply aren’ tthe result of OLP whatsoever. If OLP didn’t shoot when active it would solve a lot of our problems, but until that happens OLP is here to stay.

I’m seriously getting sick of this discussion; it’s like banging my head against a brick wall. Maybe you should pop down a base on GG with/without OLP until the end of this season, i’m curious to see how it goes.

Finally don’t forget that soon people won’t be able to magically spawn bases out of thin air, bringing significantly more logic to this game, therefore this idea of OLP attack bases will prove to be completely and utterely obsolete, the same with the idea of some new player coming down spawning a base and logging out; this time that said new player has to actually build a base manually, throughout that time he can be attacked and his progress reversed.

EDIT: Big factions having bases on GG is actually a GOOD thing (hence a no to the daily wipes) as it gives people an opportunity to strike at their enemies and to steal/destroy resources and ships. GMC did this when we went over to NA and damaged one of the big NA bases over there; it was great fun, and a couple of times we were harassed by the NA guys also on EU GG, so actually all you’re doing by trying to remove bases from the major playfields is actually weaken and shallow-out the fantastic PVP meta that we have going on EU right now. I suggest you get involved in some of the PVP and play a little bit more on the server and those playfields for making sweeping statements or half-baked conclusions on the state of the META.

I wish people started to realise that OLP is more of a help than a hinderence, and on EU GG we’ve have very few issues this season; surprisingly so and instead it has added to the richness of the fights.

Best regards
Wise.

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Wiseman buddy i know u want to keep OLP, i just wish you would condense it a little. OLP may work on EU but it is always being exsploited on NA so it got removed finaly.

what Grizz is sayin if you want to put a base down and keep it put it on PvE, if you want to put a base down and defend it go to PvP ,OLP kills PvP and Lags playfeilds out because of the longevity of bases.

to be fair Rex always intended the playfeilds to be like that i recall, mind you he might of changed his mind as of recent.

OLP is quite frankly a band-Aid OLP has no place in a PvP playfield or this game thats just my opinion.

and Grizz has been fighting nealy everyday on GG just so you know.

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however daily wipes i would be intrested in, keep the PvP playfeilds clean like GG

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i take it from reading some of your posts you are on the reciving end of AFT quite alot lol.

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It’s impossible to condense posts of this nature; frankly they have to be significant in size in order to correlate to and reflect the time i’ve spent thinking of the issue alongside the significance of all the seperate variables.

Also I have nothing against Grizzly or any of the NA Pvpers; in fact they have my respect. My post regarding playtime was aimed at a new player on EU.

PVP OLP allows PVP bases to be DEFENDED when ATTACKED. Similar to real life bases if we wish to use that analogy. Offline raiding saw an END to PVP bases on all major playfields on EU through seasons 5 and 6. Even in 6 with OLP bases were so underpowered that they could be destroyed even if a full defence was deployed.

So OLP is a beneficiary to PVP bases as for now (as i conceed it can feel a little bit like a band-aid, but it’s better than the non OLP alternative) it is the only thing that prevents offline raiding from destroying bases. Offline raiding is no fun whatsoever; for attacker or defender, and it typically results in people leaving the game due to burn out or frustration.

Let me tell you what else forces people to leave the game… burn-out…what do i mean by burn-out? Burn-out is when someone plays for so long that they finally get sick of the whole thing and just throw in the towel, and it’s something we saw on GG EU this season (even WITH OLP) as we were being attacked for about 6-12 hours a night. We left after only two weeks to enable our members to get a break. If you guys over at NA were to attack that base complex night-after-night i can promise you that you would see some change to the defenders; they would lose a couple of players most likely to burn-out.

And Rexxus intended playfields to have PVP ‘windows’ take old armageddon. The issue with Arma was that you had a PVE/PVP rotation (which was a fantastic idea) HOWEVER the gold stayed THROUGH the PVE rotation, so people came to mine on PVE and enriched themselves without any risk whatsoever. So we have a choice, PVP-PVE rotation or OLP, i prefer OLP as the playfield remains perma PVP (which is how it should be IMO).

On your point about receiving A.F.T quite a bit that would be correct but he’s also been receiving lots of firepower from us also; in fact our two weeks on GG were nothing but wins TBH, with our final attempt to establish a foothold halfway through the season failing due to a very well executed and organised and sustained attack from our Russian friends. I must say I also wasn’t doing a very good job that day either, but the victory belongs to the Russians there who did a phenomenal job and have been a fantastic foe to fight against @A.F.T and @CyIvIpak and the rest of the Russian factions have been great fun to fight against and they have played very well this entire season. Kudos to them for being a worthy adversery!

TL:DR OLP may be a band-aid or whatever; but it’s a HELLUVA lot better than a PVEPVP rotation planet.

Best regards
Wise.

PS: Daily Wipes already happen, but thankfully they don’t wipe bases, as if they did you’d be losing a large part of the whole PVP meta, i suggest we wait and see through season 8 how OLP works before we mess around with any more variables right now. Patience makes perfect; good things come to those who wait.

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OLP is quite frankly being Exsploited by meany factions to keep a foothold or safe havens in PvP playfeilds
one word BROKEN!. you can keep your OLP on EU and watch your GG playfeild just Implode by a unoptimised
lag bomb lol. we prefer PvP at like 10 fps if posible.

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I’m running a super-duper old pc and yet regularly get above 10fps

I7 quadcore but with only a 660 graphics card and even I don’t get it that bad. You’re not an AMD user are you? (Serious Q)

See with the whole thing about OLP bases lingering with inactive faction members; that could simply be solved by curtailing the number of days someone can leave a structure for before it deletes on GG+HW. I’d be for this idea of mine; so basically everywhere else it’s 9 days until something gets deleted but on GG and HW it’s 2 days. I think that would solve what you’re talking about.

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Well so far GG PVP hasn’t truly been that BAD. The overabundance of structures causes allot of issues, but this can be limited, the biggest pain and lag are when ‘attack towers’ are spawned in.

As for OLP, I am PRO OLP, love it and appreciate it, why not disable turrets while it is active?

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Disabling of turrets whilst OLP is enabled would solve SO MANY problems it’d be fantastic.