HWS 10.X Economy Update!

HWS Announcements
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We had discussions, we had polls, we had over a month to get a solution how to change the economy ingame. Now, when the changes are brought to the game, everybody is complaining. All i hear is “Mimimi” about this. Not one single idea is in this thread about what could get better, only how bad everything now is because the big fishes cant get 2 more million daily ingame to their wealth. One guy was even complaining that he now has to actively playing the game to keep his wealth.

Take it or try to change the system with a better idea, only sitting there and going ragemode doesnt help.

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(In my best Q voice): Come now Picard, let us not resort to fruitless gestures of pointless images and petty namecalling, can we not come to reason?

However sometimes I understand the need for theatrics:

http://66.media.tumblr.com/e0b8c884888d16bb5f8d84284c61f6c5/tumblr_mk473tu5er1s67vyfo2_250.gif

[In other words, enough with the pointless memes! If you have nothing nice or constructive to say, then say Nothing at all!]

Moreover Whizzle I believe that people have been quite softly spoken in their issues with this change. I’ll certainly say that this change is heading in the right direction, but for me it’s a case of too far, too fast.

I remember when the OCD capacity changed from 500K to 50K per slot (OCD 5), this was for all intents and purposes a 90% reduction over the old one, it was an extreme measure, but people were ‘grandfathered’, their overcapacity items in the OCD remained.

Whereas with this change although I agree perhaps a small reduction in interest is acceptable I believe that this is too much. The changes to the economy should be seen as an experiment…if you change too many variables then suddenly you won’t know what is helping and what is hindering your mission of deflation.

(Btw a really good method of cutting back cash is to create some kind of maximum hard cap as to what can be carried over in cold hard cash terms per season, naturally this won’t prevent the OCD gold hoarders but it will slowly over time be a deflationary measure unless gold is being harvested faster that it can be sold or transfered, this was a problem of the old but I’m not sure how alike GG is today to how I remember it.)

Another solution of mine would be to HALVE (Half) the extent of your changes to the bank. So right now at EB 5 your interest reduction is 66%, with only 33% of the original (1.5)million per day remaining. Instead I’d have it at 1mil per day as this is only a 500k reduction.

Equally important is what Swiss said regarding grandfathering (making sure those who have only recently got this feature are compensated, as it can be extremely demotivating to reach a feature just for it to be nerfed. I had this happen to me with ; OAM Gold mining amount, OCD storage amount, Faction Bank interest (which to be fair WAS INSANE! You could make hundreds of millions a day lol). Each of these times caused to me to question whether I should continue playing, as you all know, I chose to continue playing and the rest is history, this is a great server and I kept coming back to it! :slight_smile:

Anyways, my suggestion for grandfathering would be 10-15mil for all EB users that have upgraded recently and this would help stimulate the early game economy and would probably provide the likes of @WhizZLe with a great many trade deals! :slight_smile:

Best regards, this has been typed with haste as I’m studying today so apologies in advance for any errors or lack of conciseness!
Wise.

(Also Whizzle I love how similar our forum stats are, our read times are alike, and you joined one day after me, that’s amazing! :smiley: )

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Change is inevitable and necessary at times.

Two points: I for one dont play the market game in HWS. Glad its here, and maybe someday will do more with it.

Second, I never asked for market change – because, see above.

Great, change it for those who are into that dimension of hws. That is good, love the effort and energy put in to do so.

Fix the shortcomings needing to be fixed, make it better – an hws strenght. But, dont punish those who are not part of the problem.

My biggest issue – is being cruely punished for no valid reason.

Wise is correct, this is big demotivating factor — just as the planned changes to ocd were at the tail end of season 8.0. Those were eventually changed after much forum discussion.

Had hoped the lesson was learned from that experience — but, here we are on the same road again, and even worse this time with real money involved.

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I personally think the Grandfather concept should work even more so for those that BOUGHT Keep EB level with REAL CASH . Expecting their EB Level to stay the same the terms of that season being carried over to the next .

We paid to keep that bank level of that season … With a new season the new bank level terms would be changed and if people wanted to pay for with their REAL MONEY that seasons new Keep EB level then , they would get the new terms .

We were never told that there was going to be anything like this happening . When it comes to Peoples real money , a Bait and switch tactic is NOT cool at all . What myself and others paid for is NOT what we have now . We did NOT pay to keep the New bank level terms , We paid to keep last Seasons terms .

I do not mind change even though it seems like I do in this comment . At the end of the day change is going to happen in games that grow over time like this and thats ok . What I am not a fan of is people that Support the Server and pay for things like myself having things that we paid for taken away .

Yes their are a million different ways to look at why it was done and I agree the Millionaires and Billionaires need to be slowed down . Make it more challenging to earn money , BAN people extra accounts that monopolize the server . The list goes on . But at the End of the Day if people on one account can Earn millions of credits and buy different supporter packages then they should be able to keep what they earned or bought . That’s one of the reasons many people play on HWS is the longevity of their accounts , hws connect profile etc . NOT so we can wake up and have things taken away that we earned such as WIPING a OCD full of materials or EB Bank interest taken by half or more maybe try a 1/4 not 1/2.

If people do not agree with me thats fine . But there is a lot that are very soft spoken as @Wiseman738 said . To many people are scared to post anything here due to the possiblity of being punished . Look at numbers for example my Faction, most do not want to come back due to the changes of this season From Weapon count changes ( which worked fine we were in plenty of PVP battles from SV to CV no lag so performance wasnt the reason ) to bank level changes … That was over 35 people that dont want to come back now … With that being said most of my guys were Financial Supporters of the Server myself included .

@WhizZLe you are right about the Idea’s in this thread , but we did have a thread about EB Level’s and nothing was ever brought up to the extreme from @RexXxuS or @Jascha . The only thing that was said from @h1myname1sdav1d was that changes were coming . Plenty of people replied with idea’s on things but we were never told in advance what was going to be happening with our credits , Donations and or Personal Money which is a huge deal .

A change to this scale should have been talked about to the HWS Community and Voted on as a whole . The HWS Community pays for this Server as well as a income for other’s . When we start talking about peoples money in game and out of game it is a huge issue from where people are going to buy their supplies in game to how bills are going to get paid for the server . You start taking these things away it can hurt everyone wallets in and out of game @RexXxuS.

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actual facts:
an economy can not be created out of thin air with a small group of people in less than a decade and be 100% perfect making everyone happy. all around this planet we have been struggling with economics. there have been countless wars over it. griping about how much it messes up ”the way u want to play" does not help anything. the salt factory has produced more than enough raw material for a time now. my intent is to diffuse the anxiety of what is to come. lots of things have changed since i started playing here. some good, some bad. but i trust they are in all of our best interests. we don’t need anymore bashing or bickering. just collaborations of ideas. my apologies that i feel some deflective inspiration is much more needed than toxicity.

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@Bob I see no toxicity on this thread, and I’ve seen a great many threads on my years here, the closest thing to toxicity i’ve seen was the memeing by people but even that wasn’t toxic at all, just unconstructive.

@h1myname1sdav1d Please don’t mistake my prior post for griping, I’m trying to offer some solutions, the fact I haven’t said anything about the other changes means I’m largely positive or indifferent to them and therefore appreciate your excellent effort to fix up the economy.

I believe that the unique structure of HWS (in terms of its seasons) should be utilised to help improve the economy, therefore this large 66% change could be spaced over the course of two seasons, have a 33% reduction in the bank this season and after analysis you can decide if another 33% reduction in interest is required.

However, it is extremely important to let people know of this direction beforehand so they can anticipate these changes and inform their choices regarding getting EB levels, cash amounts and server support packages.

Overall I agree with the direction your heading in, but we just need to get there perhaps a bit more slowly which can then help the community feel more involved. I imagine before making the changes you looked at the prior threads regarding EB changes, there’s lots of indifference on this thread because a great many of these arguments have been made before as Swiss pointed out:

Or the one before this:

Then for those who missed it: A lot of the latest economy discussion: HWS Economy Update and Feedback - #4 by Wiseman738

Best regards,
Wise.

Oh and although I fear to reignite the fire that started regarding this suggestion it may have relevance in how adding features could help the mission towards deflation: Hacking feature discussion - #75 by Chaplain_5-15

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Thanks to everyone who has contributed here. I wanted to make sure you all saw this:

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I normally don’t voice too many opinions and I usually just roll with the punches when it comes to game changes. However, these economy changes are way too drastic. I worked my buns off harvesting (with the cave miner) selling ingots, and when that got nerfed, ore to get my bank level up last season so I could get the interest, so I could by the 16m Garage ship (which I had for <30 days) and still have money in the bank for when the season restarted.

Bank Issues

Sardcore and Wiseman738 – both had a good points. “Another solution of mine would be to HALVE (Half) the extent of your changes to the bank. So right now, at EB 5 your interest reduction is 66%, with only 33% of the original (1.5) million per day remaining. Instead I’d have it at 1mil per day as this is only a 500k reduction.”

I am going to spend $34,200,000 to get bank level 6 (plus 400 RP) to keep $60,000,000 at the end of the season. I am going to make $63,000,000 total in interest if I can get my bank level to 6 on the first day (which is not possible unless you have a guild of 400 people for the RP). I won’t even be able to get the full interest daily because I had to spend $34M of the $60m I took with me from last season.

It seems like going to spend more than I make in interest just to keep the same level of money for roll over at the end of this season. The interest should pay enough to keep your level the same if you do nothing. You still need to get out and vote and play to get the RP to upgrade the bank on top of the monetary cost.

I did not, but those who “borrowed” $700M to upgrade to OCD 7 are seriously screwed. They expected the interest to help offset that. There are very few ways to make that money a season unless it is ALL that you do. I do not want to spend all of my time hustling to make money, but that looks like what I may be doing.

I think Factions should have a “Faction Bank Level” to carry over some money each season as well. Think about it.

Trader Issues

I purchased a trader using REAL LIFE money. I bought it toward the end of the season after seeing how much money could be made even keeping the cost of the package under 1 Mil. I had a med pack (the same pack I have now) The package cost 600k +RP and the net I made was 300k with each purchase (no RP given to the seller). Now the same kit costs 40k and I am making 20k a transaction. I am making 6% of what I was making. Not 50% of what I was making…. Not 25%… 6%, this is a 93% REDUCTION!!! If this is what I knew I would be getting I would NOT have purchased that. I am glad it is a permanent feature, I might eventually “get my money back”.

Deconstructor

I was only using the Deconstructor as a way to spend any extra money I had at the end of the season, trying not to “lose” money. I rarely mine gold. It is not going to really impact me much unless I am the seller.

Whenever nerfing something, you need to grandfather in, or do something to compensate those hurt by these decisions. Once again, sends message of why bother striving to obtain something on the server, will just be taken away.

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